Ain't Talkin' 'Bout D120s

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lll
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Ain't Talkin' 'Bout D120s

Post by lll »

Endless tweaking and listening; comparing.

Now I'm 100% convinced that the speakers on VH1 are only Blackbacks. No D120s.

One SM56 on cap edge or so (brighter), another SM56 on cone (darker).

I used York Audio Blackbacks (as per above).

This tone surprising has very little DAW EQ

Pultec EQP-1:
100Hz -3.5dB

Pultec MEQ-5:
500Hz -5.5dB

I also fine tuned the delay and reverb. For the delay, I went with Brian Kehew's statement that a 1/4" tape (studio tape deck) was used, so I slapped in the UAD Ampex ATR-102 @ 360ms.

No variacs were used on this clip, however. :lol:

Using Guitar Hero backings

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Re: Ain't Talkin' 'Bout D120s

Post by PLX »

This sounds damn good :!:

Funny that you did this because Ossie Ahsen said the exact same thing in his video last Sunday..

He doubts the JBL D-120s were used to record VH1

He thinks it was merely mic placement (2 mics, specifically). Pretty much exactly what you have demonstrated here.
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Re: Ain't Talkin' 'Bout D120s

Post by lll »

PLX wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 5:05 am This sounds damn good :!:

Funny that you did this because Ossie Ahsen said the exact same thing in his video last Sunday..

He doubts the JBL D-120s were used to record VH1

He thinks it was merely mic placement (2 mics, specifically). Pretty much exactly what you have demonstrated here.
There's so much internet BS out there.

I can think of a few misleading internet episodes; even just about which speakers Ed used:

1. "Ed says he loves Greenbacks"

2. The release of the RWTD snippets (one labeled "JBL" the other "Celestion")

Those two right there threw me off for a decade plus.

Here's some more: Metroamp forum was the genesis of the RWTD snippets (prolly Friedman). Then people were analyzing them and saying if you blended both of them, there's the tone. So, let's whip out our JBL and Greenback speaker iRs and blend them together.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even Brian Kehew (he's a guitar player, producer, etc, studio rat and has worked with the VH Master tapes via Warner Bros) was (and may still be) on the JBL speaker "tip"; specifically that the JBL is what imparts that unique top end. He's said as much in the Sunset Sound YouTube vids. But you know (I can verify 100% because I remember him well from Metro forum when he made a brief appearance but left undoubtedly due to the jagoffs at that place) he was reading forums too.

Ultimately, in the end you gotta use your ears. I A/B'd the JBL iR back and forth with the supposed "JBL" RWTD snippet and the JBL has very honky upper mids whereas the "JBL" RWTD snippet does not. The "JBL" RWTD snippet really (if you throw away what you've read and all presumptions and just use your ear) - sounds like a brighter mic placement of the Blackback.

So anyways back to when I had the "a ha" moment: after A/B'ing JBL iR with "JBL" snippet back and forth and thinking, "that ain't it; no way"... I kept the Blackback ("dark") iR that I already had and went to my Blackback folder (York Audio) and flipped through a few until I found a brighter one and added it. Voila. Afterwards for fine tuning I turned down the "dark" iR maybe -6dBs. So those two combined.

Forum suggestion is very powerful indeed. Forum lies are even worse.
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Re: Ain't Talkin' 'Bout D120s

Post by lll »

Which reminds me there was a "travelling exhibit" of Ed's actual gear used for VH 1 (I have pics somewhere) in London (IIRC) a few years back... had his amps, stripped speaker cabs, FX etc (all the gear we're familiar with).

I remember looking at the pics and seeking those silver capped speakers (a la JBL D120s) in those stripped cabs... not a single one.
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Re: Ain't Talkin' 'Bout D120s

Post by PLX »

lll wrote: Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:46 pm There's so much internet BS out there.

I can think of a few misleading internet episodes; even just about which speakers Ed used:

1. "Ed says he loves Greenbacks"

2. The release of the RWTD snippets (one labeled "JBL" the other "Celestion")

Those two right there threw me off for a decade plus.

Here's some more: Metroamp forum was the genesis of the RWTD snippets (prolly Friedman). Then people were analyzing them and saying if you blended both of them, there's the tone. So, let's whip out our JBL and Greenback speaker iRs and blend them together.. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Even Brian Kehew (he's a guitar player, producer, etc, studio rat and has worked with the VH Master tapes via Warner Bros) was (and may still be) on the JBL speaker "tip"; specifically that the JBL is what imparts that unique top end. He's said as much in the Sunset Sound YouTube vids. But you know (I can verify 100% because I remember him well from Metro forum when he made a brief appearance but left undoubtedly due to the jagoffs at that place) he was reading forums too.

Ultimately, in the end you gotta use your ears. I A/B'd the JBL iR back and forth with the supposed "JBL" RWTD snippet and the JBL has very honky upper mids whereas the "JBL" RWTD snippet does not. The "JBL" RWTD snippet really (if you throw away what you've read and all presumptions and just use your ear) - sounds like a brighter mic placement of the Blackback.

So anyways back to when I had the "a ha" moment: after A/B'ing JBL iR with "JBL" snippet back and forth and thinking, "that ain't it; no way"... I kept the Blackback ("dark") iR that I already had and went to my Blackback folder (York Audio) and flipped through a few until I found a brighter one and added it. Voila. Afterwards for fine tuning I turned down the "dark" iR maybe -6dBs. So those two combined.

Forum suggestion is very powerful indeed. Forum lies are even worse.
Yeah, that whole thing started on MetroAmp forum many years ago, when Dave Friedman posted two very short audio clips labelled "RWTD ISO Celestion" & "RWTD ISO JBL"

I remember the idiots on MetroAmp forum going through 7~8 pages arguing about whether or not it was Ed playing on those tracks.

:lol:

I knew what I was hearing instantly :!:

But that started the whole "JBL D-120" thing right there.


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